EXP nerf

[Cracker]

Just so all you admin know, elites were like the only cool and unique thing about this mud. Now that you've nerfed the exp from them people are way unbalanced and the littler people are going to have a harder time growing. You've got people that power bashed elites all the way up to 25k and the only way to recover from that is A: Player wipe, which will piss even more people off. B: Go back to the way things were where everybody was happy. or C: Continue with the way things are now and have a completely unbalanced (Sort of unfair might i add) playerbase.
Just sayin, I for one will not be playing nearly as much because it's lame, and i'm sure lots of other people feel like i do. Doesn't seem like a good outcome at all

[Guthrie]

Elites were overpowered from the beginning. That was the mistake...because now we have players leaving because things went back to how they should be. I don't know a single person who power bashed to 25k. The closest thing to that would be when we all bashed mirrors. Elites were much worse than mirrors. EXPing isn't supposed to be easy. Be glad you got what you did and move on. I don't mean to sound like an *** but hey, I've got thousands of hours invested into this MUD where I worked hard to get where I am and it burns my *** to see you all go from 5k-18k or even 19k in some cases in just a couple months. It's ******* stupid in my opinion.

[kurtap]

cracker the damage is already done. pretty sure no one maxed because of elites though. at least not anyone who wouldn't have maxed anyway. but yeah. it was a bummer to see people get to where i'm at size-wise in a couple months when i spent a few years and over 1600 hours of gameplay to get there. maybe i'm being whiny. i liked it better when everyone fought over mirrors. ha.

[cyan]

Someone's going to hate to hear this, but I can see it a little bit from both sides here.

No one maxed out from Elites alone. Sorry. Nor were they the only thing that makes this mud unique. There are reasons that most clones died off altogether, and there are reasons that no one plays the 1 or 2 that still survive.

They were too overpowered, pure and simple.

A well quested player ... say at 5k could kill them and it'd take a little bit but it was well rewarded. 500-600k exp. It was already very easy to get to 10k in a matter of weeks, with focus. - Sorry that's not what you wish to hear, but I'm not going to sugar coat.

The same goes in reverse though.

A lot of changes have come into play over the years that have both temporarily stunted or boosted the growth of the then newer players versus the generation before or after them. It's just part of how it goes.

The point is to keep players around and not everyone is going to be happy, unfortunately. It remains to be said, Cracker, that the generation of your character had it far easier in many aspects than the ones before it. Things in the game are far too easy now for the smaller folk, pure and simple. The vacation cruise was fun while it lasted.

The larger generation of players, mostly pre-dating 2007 had advantages as well, in some aspects, (there were no size reqs on EQ, there were FAR more active players to help with runs in a far more generous manner than it has been at other points.

But if tons of players are just going to plow to 16-20k in 8-10 weeks time, there's little point. While some people are simply focused and take advantage of what's in the game while it's there to get big as they can while they can, there is NO point in being angry enough to not want to play over it. I've had MANY characters over the years and the only thing scarier that I can think of besides that and seeing Blart's chest hair is a power hungry player with an entire army of characters who used something like Elite mobs to get them all there. Would you really want to make that sort of a player angry? :/ One character of mine has killed ONE elite mob. Just one.

It's a bummer to see them go and I realize that it'll take me a while to "catch up" with that character, but hey... I'll still be bigger than any generation that comes after me. There's the advantage that you had and continue to have.

Bummer? Yes. Worth cutting back on play time or quitting over?

Bwahaahhahahah!

[Damerion]

Heres my take on it, I caught what I would call the worst of the generations I was a inbetweener.

When I was coming up drikna and mirrors were king, but people like guth deru and desades woudl take both (i couldn't take mirrors yet anyway) and be able to do millions a hour I believe some did almost 8 million a hour. Derubael grew at a tremendous pace and by the time I grew big enough to take Drik'na it was still being claimed by huge people and i had to go elsewhere the hated tristam areas.

Now once deru and guth and desades weren't online and iw as big enough surprise surprise i was able to do mirrors and drik'na as they used to be for about a week and a half. Then guess what OMG they made mirrors ungodly and drikna sucked for bigger people. So I was once again banished to Tristam

Then I grew to about 18k all told and Daitja and Helmut introduced elite mobs and lo and behold I could get the same amount of exp I could from them from my normal bash routines it would just be less reg inbetween not to much faster. So I grew a decent amount in a amount of time that would be longer then when I would do my normal run why do you ask? Well lets be honest bashing elites was boring as hell, it left one able to do other things chat serf the web etc.

The people who benefited from these mobs were the small guys especially people like Nwalme and Hezbol Nwalme put a ungodly amount of time in. Am I angry about the sudden drop in exp? Not really there are just as good options you could alwayas ya know quest for exp its not that bad, or you could go back and bash drik'na or such or learn some of the harder bash zones.

Is it a bit unbalanced? For some of you it is Hez and Nwalme took giant steps in short years everyone else well they are decent size but they are not giant. Some people did max out during this time but most of them were a k off at most so it wasn't a bit deal.

It sucks and elite exp does need to be tweeked a little bit probably since they are useless for bigger people to be sure, 2.5 mil a hour isn't the best oer 20k to be sure.

The lesson of the story is I got screwed! not really its just to have fun and be glad that we had fun with them when we did and there will be tweeks to help hinder.

For example heres my suggestion instead of wacking off exp directly I would say a sliding scale would be the best

0-5k 0 exp Max from elites
5k-10k 150k max from elites
10-13k 200k max from elites
13-16k 260k max from elites
16-20k 320k max from elites
20-25k 450k max from elites

This would give each grouping a boost in exp but it would not be so detrimental to the mud where tey couldn't bash elsewhere and get just as much if not more exp but thats just my thought

[kurtap]

i suggested a similar solution to guth earlier today actually. instead of it being based on size it could be based on status. something like
0k vaga-fighter
150k advent-champ
300k warrior-slayer
450k destroyer and above

[Damerion]

With the lack of status for certain groups it would just be hard for me to see exp gain so linked to status above what it is

[Sonja]

The people who benefited from these mobs were the small guys especially people like Nwalme and Hezbol Nwalme put a ungodly amount of time in.

I think the people who put ungodly hours of time in were the people who were Hezbol and Nwalme's size and two-three times their ages. They have done peanuts in comparison.

Just so all you admin know, elites were like the only cool and unique thing about this mud.

There are tonnes of things that make this mud unique, say from the clones (which is where you played, correct?). Take a look around at which muds are still around Cracker.

Now that you've nerfed the exp from them people are way unbalanced and the littler people are going to have a harder time growing. You've got people that power bashed elites all the way up to 25k...

Merely back to the way things were and should be. Not one single person has bashed all the way up to 25k, which is also a great indication that you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to this game's dynamics.

And if you want to talk about unfairness Cracker, let's talk about all the big old people such as myself that had to work hard for these kinds of stats. YOU may think that it's unfair because you no longer benefit from it, but really you should be incredibly THANKFUL you got an opportunity to grow during a time when the admins were experimenting with exp changes and implementations. You should THANK Helmut and Daitja for the opportunity they have given you to grow so quickly and quit being such a whiny *****. You should literally have written them each a long letter thanking them for saving you hundreds of hours of bashing and offering to use that saved time to preform tasks for them, worshiping, praising and rejoicing in their honour.

[Derubael]

This thread should really be in conclave, just my two cents.

I come back later tonight and drop 200 cents since i kno u all wanna hear what i have to say (lets b honest, who doesnt?)

[Damerion]

Lets be honest here before elites there was another broken exp system that was far far far worse than anything elites did. It was called Mirrors+Drika+lower nest, I for one saw people do over 8 million a hour easy, so lets not get righteous and say that x player worked harder then x even maka would say that a lot of people got screwed and had a lot less benefits then yall did bashing up.

[Sonja]

Lets be honest here before elites there was another broken exp system that was far far far worse than anything elites did. It was called Mirrors+Drika+lower nest, I for one saw people do over 8 million a hour easy, so lets not get righteous and say that x player worked harder then x even maka would say that a lot of people got screwed and had a lot less benefits then yall did bashing up.

I'll recognize that as an 'issue', but please tell me who got from 4k to 20k in ~3 months using drik'na/mirrors/nest with 8 million an hour?

[Damerion]

lets not gloss over the fact that 24k people were getting "max" exp from drik'na mobs which totally threw the game off balance and it went on for months and months and months, and mirrors abuse? thats more than an "issue". It unbalanced the games in favor of larger people a huge amount, compare catacombs bashing to mirrors drik'na nest and you see a vast difference in exp gain, and if I recall didn't a certain sonja used to stake people for even killing any mobs in lower nest?

But lets get back to your point, No nobody did it in 3 months number one they did not log as many hours as Nwalme did in 3 months, Lets compare two active people Near certain size, Acroth and Nwalme. They are both similar in age for sure, now size Acroth missed out on mirrors and drik'na just as I did and most of the early elite exp that most of us got. Nwalme came in a bit before elites and was about 6k before they got put in I believe. He then put in over 60 hours a week minimum some 70 in that 3 month period so almsot 10 hours a day doing nothing but bashing and questing. How is that not earning his size? Perhaps he would be 2k smaller perhaps perhaps not.

Lets look at what the run used to look like, very simple you could do from 5k-10k in almost 2 weeks anyway, the pleaides drow run made that so simple it was not even funny a good example of this would be faye getting over 2k in a week from this run. I myself used to do almost a K every 6 hours of bashing that run when I got off my *** and bashed.

Yea bashing sucked past 10k but thats becuase o the lack of bashing areas before the exp fix becuase of biggies and then pigeon holed even more after teh exp fix.

So this is not a new problem at all this is just a reoccuring theme the only maxed person who I think would have room to ***** about any of this would be the likes of Tamaz omega etc.

[blart]

Elites were overpowered from the beginning. That was the mistake...because now we have players leaving because things went back to how they should be. I don't know a single person who power bashed to 25k. The closest thing to that would be when we all bashed mirrors. Elites were much worse than mirrors. EXPing isn't supposed to be easy. Be glad you got what you did and move on. I don't mean to sound like an *** but hey, I've got thousands of hours invested into this MUD where I worked hard to get where I am and it burns my *** to see you all go from 5k-18k or even 19k in some cases in just a couple months. It's ******* stupid in my opinion.

I agree with you totally. i played a very long time to get where i am as well. but ya know what can us players do? Us players meaning 20k and up players.

[Derubael]

So this is not a new problem at all this is just a reoccuring theme

This pretty well sums up how i feel. Elites should have been scaled from the beginning, and of course this stands out as the biggest problem because of that, but it is not, by any means, where this started.

[Damerion]

So this is not a new problem at all this is just a reoccuring theme

This pretty well sums up how i feel. Elites should have been scaled from the beginning, and of course this stands out as the biggest problem because of that, but it is not, by any means, where this started.

a man after my own heart: Just to point out one more thing, sure elites were overpowered before lets say 11k (then you pretty much had to switch to just taking solo elites at a time) then at around 14k it evens out to normal exp if you know what you are doing bashing before elites anyway until you get above 21k probably then you can get 10 mil a hour which is about 20 across which isn't to bad i suppose (mirrors+drika+nest probably 8 mil if you were focused)

and one final example Makaveli who is a good basher for sure was able to gain 400 across a day almost in the teens and two hundred across a day higher up when he wanted. So its not like it has changed much if at all in the 10-20k range it seems to me.

[kurtap]

the drik, mirrors and nest run was dangerous. i feel like if you want to get crazy exp you should have to roll the dice a little. i'm betting everyone who ever seriously bashed mirrors probably lost heads doing it. the best bashing should be risky. there is nothing risky about chipping away at elites. safest bashing ever.

[daitja]

We expected that the elite change would cause frustration. No one likes to see nerfs. However, to be clear, their status for the past 4-5 months since implementation has been something like an "unfinished project". They were intended to have more mechanics to increase the challenge and danger of the encounter. In the future, you may find their experienced buffed closer to where it's been, along with their difficulty. We never planned the scenario where you could attack a mob, make a cup of coffee and come back to half a million experience. One of our primary goals is game balance, and that means tipping the scale BOTH ways.

To the OP: I'm not sure I understand what's "unbalanced" about the playerbase. Everyone over 5k (which could be reached in a matter of days) had equal access to unreasonably huge experience. The only unfairness I can see is to players who were ALREADY over 15k, watching significantly younger players reach their size much more quickly. At the end of the day, an already top-heavy mud is a bit more top-heavy, giving vets more pk options.

In general: we read the forums, and we appreciate and consider your feedback. I like the length of this thread.

[Sonja]

and if I recall didn't a certain sonja used to stake people for even killing any mobs in lower nest?

You recall incorrectly as I take 'zone claiming' very seriously and have never bashed nest in my entire time playing.

I never claimed I never got to take advantage of a certain way of bashing to get exp quicker than others have in the past - I don't know why you're trying to make it out to seem like because I got to use mirrors that I can't say elites were over powered - it's a fact, hence they were 'nerfed.' But what I am saying is that I never got to take advantage of a bashing strategy to take me from "6k" to nearly 20k in 3 months. I'll acknowledge that these specific players have put in their time and were simply using the bashing style that was popular and in place for them at the time, but I too have put in similar hours, even during the drik/mirror period and was still unable to reap similar benefits. I am not holding it against these players specifically so I also don't understand why you're being so defensive - I'm merely using them as an example as to why this was discontinued to lay things out to a player who doesn't understand (Cracker).

Tamaz is around 22k Damerion, and I was 20k when mirrors was introduced, so if you're saying people like Maz, Omega, etc are the only ones that have only legit complaint, guess what, I fall with them because we bashed the same way entirely. So thank you for entitling me to that claim.

TL;DR
Bashing 6-20k in three months is way more huge of a deal than what bashing mirrors/drik/nest ever brought about. Even 5k to 16k - whatever.

[blart]

This is the jest i got from it all. The drikna mirror run was ran by 2 people mabie 3 i didnt pay attention much i was busy bashing alaynia and lava good exp from both hell i still bash lava. Anyway everyone has a point some good some not as good. nwalme got to his size a bit too fast hez and nwalme me started while i was around nwalme i would say is a dedicated player but there is like no way he should be the size he is in that amount of time. im 1k in age and im over 20k stats i was that way before my little absent appearance and when i came back and the elites were added i gained a wow mabie 1k in stats. Mainly because i didn't have the time to do what nwalme and others were able to. But then the changes went in with the elites they got tweaked dropped in level or something they gave lower exp to us 20k plus players and more to the 5-18k players. Sonja has been here almost as long as i can remember. Guthrie as well. Hell he is one of the only people besides helmut i remember playing from way back in the day. Now if the eq things got changed where dam roll has little meaning to the eq being balanced back out. The status would change positions again where the really big players have the advantage again and the little ones would be wanting to grow to be like us or them. the exp was a big hit because people could grow faster without doing as much. yes ya could gain big exp an hour before the elites but not if 1 person was doing it already then you wouldn't be gaining that much that fast i was always on the tail end of huge exp runs. i tried to hit mirrors and drikna mirrors wasted me too fast had to flee like 1000 times before i could clear a single room. i go to drikna and i was able to hurl a room and gain the exp but then hurling mass amount of mobs was fixed as well. so that ended my little jumping up and down for joy. Here it is in a nut shell everyone gets a step up and everyone has a chance to shine. but not everyone works their *** off more than Helmut to try and make us all happy. The ones who should be bitc ing should be the coders for everyone crying over this crap. Even me. I actually tell helmut and the admin they are doing a great job and thanx and praise them. that's is why it seems like i get things more than most its because i actually let them know i'm happy about their work where most anyone else its like do this do that and kiss my butt without a thank you or something. With that said i'm getting off here i need some sleep my gf is back in the hospital right now and has been asleep almost all day. i'm tired of being at the hospital and working my *** off with very little to show for it.

[Derubael]

I cant even list all the contradictions people are making in this thread. Im just going to keep my mouth shut so I dont piss anyone off. Helmut thank you for responding, and please lock this thread before it gets out of hand. It has gone from a discussion to a rant.


***edit*** oops! Daitja, not helmut.

[Helmut]

Well, that was actually Daitja that responded. I don't see anything wrong with this forums. Also good to have a healthy debate. I would like to mention that fixing the areas and the code was not meant to negatively impact any players by any means. I know that during this process, there will be some growing pains, but it's all a learning process and a trial and error. The elite mobs were suppose to give the same exp that you would gain if you attacked several mobiles in one room, but would take longer to kill. Obviously the exp reward was way too generous and needed adjustments. The faster someone reaches 25k, the quicker they will
be bored and eventually leave. I know it's a goal for everyone to achieve, but right now there aren't many options once you get there. We are working on the code, cleaning it up more, and trying to discuse details on what options to give players that reach this point. Until we come up with a solution, we ask that you bare with us.

[Damerion]

Firstly I just like debating thats just who I am

Secondly the only point I am trying to get across is that the old system of exp is just as broken as the elite exp, why wasn't anyone able to make the jump from 10-20k? Well firstly it was three zones that were being bashed you mainly had to share them but let me pull one example Derubael one of my best buds got to bash drika-mirrors-nest run for 2 months probably before the nerf went in and what did he do he bashed 10-16k in that two months. Deru grew a very compariable amount to Nwalme in the same amount of time why is his age so high? Becuase he was a completel newb who screwed up completely from0-10k, then got it together. Deru would have hit 20k in about 3-3 1/2 months. Then add Drow in ther also rom 3-10k and you have a few weeks at most there so lets say 3 1/2-4 months to 20k, logging like deru did while sharing, ya know that woulda been a whole lot less time then elites if he hadn't of shared.

Sonja you know that I understand your frustration on seeing smaller people catch up I didn't have any super fast bashing routines that were just laid out, for years and years. But this is still absurd to say elites were worse then what was before even just a year ago.

[Damerion]

Thanks Helmut and Daitja for responding

I'd like to point out one thing, Nwalme has about 1000 hours of gameplay, and doing the math its only like 1.8-1.9 billion to 20k from 5k give or take a few million and if you dividie the 1000 hours into it all he has to do is a bit over 1.8 million exp a hour to 20k, and if you look at it that way...its not that big a thing at all.

I know what my average exp a hour is for my size and it goes to about 1.2 million for all my hours of playing but i also know to my knowledge that i wasted away doing jack **** for a lot of those hours lol.

[Desades]

.... EXPing isn't supposed to be easy. Be glad you got what you did and move on. I don't mean to sound like an *** but hey, I've got thousands of hours invested into this MUD where I worked hard to get where I am and it burns my *** to see you all go from 5k-18k or even 19k in some cases in just a couple months. It's ******* stupid in my opinion.

...

[ghnat]

Thanks Helmut and Daitja for responding

I'd like to point out one thing, Nwalme has about 1000 hours of gameplay, and doing the math its only like 1.8-1.9 billion to 20k from 5k give or take a few million and if you dividie the 1000 hours into it all he has to do is a bit over 1.8 million exp a hour to 20k, and if you look at it that way...its not that big a thing at all.

I know what my average exp a hour is for my size and it goes to about 1.2 million for all my hours of playing but i also know to my knowledge that i wasted away doing jack **** for a lot of those hours lol.

that comment is one of the most ridiculous ones on this thread. Think of how many eq runs, and questing hours are spent while getting there and then reconfigure your equation. You might find that out of the 1000 hrs gameplay that he spent 200-300 on questing and runs. I am 2846hrs old and still not max and I did get to spend some time on mirrors before I went torpor. tbh since the changes elites are a waste of space for me as you can get faster safer xp almost anywhere else. Oh well:P better that than people getting free xp.

[Azazel]

Unfortunately there's only one way to solve this problem.


---

On a related note, I found my exp testing area that I created when we reopened as Classic. EXP was, and always has been, one of the most complicated issues on VW. Well, at least I found it before my hd died. Pretty sure I have it on backup. I can provide this for testing issues.

In the old days (original VW), there were 2 or 3 areas that had any exp. 99% of mobiles gave 100 exp whether they were 1 hit kills or 2 minute fights. Most players didn't get to 1,000 hps didn't usually occur til your character was 100 years old (prior to balance, you're looking at ppl being 1k, 200mana, 200 move. Back then, you rarely saw over 2k mana/move).

Towards the end of the original Mud, G had put in some pretty awesome exp - but there was no balance in areas. Nothing tied them together. Players got huge. The pBase was huge. We averaged 40-50 players during peak hours and rarely had less than 20 on at any time. The mud was fairly stable. But... this created huge problems - players maxed out (Instant, Gozer, etc) and were bored shitless.

We could have opened this mud up the day after J shut the doors. We had the code. But, we made a decision to try to fix some major problems. G's first job was to tidy up a release and set up a download page on Netosia's server - Joker pointed his website to that page.

We went to work fixing flaws. Others opened mud. Of those, only SMDM's mud is still open (I think). Actually, it may be the only VW derivative still open besides this mud. My big job was to figure out exp. We wanted mobiles balanced. For several years it seemed to be ok. Over time, minor changes changed all of that.

If I could go back I'd do 2 things differently. #1 - Remove sanctuary from everything outside EQ areas (RoP, Harpoon, Io, etc - and later "eq" areas). #2 I'd have nerfed the exp curve down significantly. We still need more variety in hp/mana/move ratios. We need more things to spend exp on. Granted, we have added some since the beginning of classic (just as we added some more uses for gold).

It's a big deal. Game design isn't as easy as some make it out to be. Most people's ideas tend to benefit their players. Most of the admin on Classic never had player characters. If they did, they got rid of them quickly. I never had one here, aside from some lower lever tester characters.

EXP is something that can never be perfected.

It can be improved. There's only one way to do it. It will be painful..... but I have a few ideas on how to make it less painful.

Either way - While I was away at one point a lot of changes went in that I just don't know anything about. I'm not saying they're bad - I'm saying i'm ignorant of how they all work - and how they affect dynamics. Netosia, Dirge and Genghis did a lot to untangle the spaghetti here - Valis and Archon's description of some code issues - but there are obviously still issues.

A lot of great ideas we had never got put in - mainly because this is a game we run for fun. Not a job. Life comes first.

Anyways, I'll see if I can dig up this area for testing purposes and maybe we can work on some stuff. The nuts/bolts of the exp code here was my ideas with Dirges code monkeying. I don't know what all has been tweaked over the years - obviously either some individual areas were adjusted or the entire exp curve - or both ------ must have been touched recently.

I always felt exp should be fair, but smaller than most players wanted. There must be more to do with exp than stats/primal.

[ghnat]

no real solution is complete az. whatever you change will not affect that like yourself we all play for fun and sometimes life has other things in store for us. that is the main issue- of lot of players who invested a lot of time did so thinking that they only had to put so much time in to reach a goal. There is that and then also the fact that pk is so hard to get at higher lvls that you often start a newbie to have some with pk at lower levels but even that is boringish these days because almost everyone is a alt of someone and won't pk unless they are guaranteed of winning and that drives off real newbies cause they can't win any fights.

[Azazel]

no real solution is complete az. whatever you change will not affect that like yourself we all play for fun and sometimes life has other things in store for us. that is the main issue- of lot of players who invested a lot of time did so thinking that they only had to put so much time in to reach a goal. There is that and then also the fact that pk is so hard to get at higher lvls that you often start a newbie to have some with pk at lower levels but even that is boringish these days because almost everyone is a alt of someone and won't pk unless they are guaranteed of winning and that drives off real newbies cause they can't win any fights.

Oh, there is a solution to the exp situation. It WILL require something that most people will balk at - and that is a pwipe after the fix is made.

As for "alts" there are solutions for that - at the very least ways to make it more trouble than it's worth.

Either way, neither will likely happen - so people will have to just deal with it.

[kurtap]

hold the phone here. if/when exp is ever tweaked how you want it would a pwipe actually be on the table?

[Azazel]

hold the phone here. if/when exp is ever tweaked how you want it would a pwipe actually be on the table?

First of all, the way I'd want it would NOT be a tweak. It'd be a complete overhaul of the exp code as well as mob levels in every area of the game.

Do you think that I, an inactive admin/owner/god/type/*******, has time for that? Especially when the people in control of the game (and I don't say that in a negative manner) have moved it in a slightly different direction. (Incidentally, that's been the thing about VW, it's had different "eras" - the Joker era, the Archon/Valis era, the Genghis era, the Dirge/Netty/G/Az era, that team plus Helmut, then add Ember, then subtract Az/Dirge, then Fade out of G, reemergence of Az, addition of Daitja - and most recently it's mainly just been Daitja and Helmut ----- and the whole time Netty's been gracious enough to put up with all of our BS. Forgive me if I left off anybody, cause I know I did.)

I ain't in control (and wouldn't dare disrespect the folks that have been working hard at the thankless job of keeping this legacy alive), but if I still felt like I deserved some say, this is what I'd say:

If I had the time to work it out properly, and the coders had the time to code it properly, and we could get it to work fairly - anything would be on the table.

Why not? We've almost killed the mud before (not disconnected it, but that's crossed our minds) a few times due to various actions by various admin and things outside of our power have also almost killed the mud.

The mud has been all but completely inactive multiple times and come back repeatedly. A pwipe would mean the end for some (**** those bastards erasing all my work) , but it would been a rebirth for others (wow, fair footing and/or a new challenge).

The question is - would you want a fun/fair mud with more stability to add more features on - or would you be greedy and ***** about all the hours you lost? (I and every admin lost everything when J got fed up w/ the BS).

Either way, not likely to happen. What is likely to happen is some "tweaks" to current areas and the exp code. That will fix some problems and cause others.

You can't please everybody - so we made a decision a long time ago to do what we think is best for the game.