addressing respawns login/logout issues.

[Helmut]

I would like to figure out a way to fix the problem of people constantly logging in and out waiting for respawns of certain things. Understandably it's important for eq runs and some other small circumstances. So, to address the overall problem, the few things been discussed and I'm wanting your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.

One solution is to create a flag for certain areas that when they quit out, it will automatically transfer them to their recall point, executioner, or jokers castle. Removing them from the entire area. Making it so they have to walk back to get to what they were doing. I would like for anyone to point out possible abuse with this thought.

Another solution is to force people to get to a quiting room to allow them to quit out of the game. Thoughts, opinions, or suggestions?

[Radek]

I do not particularly mind the walking back and forth between my bashing spot (crypts my home away from home) maybe being transported to a quitting room?

otherwise i can already see the bombs being planted if we all had to walk to a centralized quitting spot

more to come...l

[Damerion]

Just some issues say someones hunting you ina hard to get to area, whops i spammed quit now i'm back at my recall safe away, someone bombed around me I will quit out and get teleported to my recall. It seems it would be a easy way to get away from pk without much effort or thought and it would suck for everyone in that regard.

Obviously eq areas should have the flag that lets them repop normally (and i take it zones woudl still have the 15 min reg repop and if you leave the zone teh regular tick repop?)

Well also about the quitting room idea, it would suck to have a emergency come up and being unable to quit out becuase of not having a quit room around, yea it would solve the pk avoidance.

Maybe here is the middle ground solution, if you log out suddenly you stay in that area for say 30 minutes-a hour then you are automatically moved back to temple or clan hall (depending on course if you are in a eq run if i was in nod and had to go and wanted to come back and finish woudl suck but that would just be a sucks for me type thing lol). Maybe also you would have to enter the mud in a event like this in a entering the mud room where you aren't safeand you stay there for a tick or so then you are put back into the area you were in or something.

Maybe you are just trans back to the start of the area or your home spot. Mostly the thing about transporting woudl make it easy to dodge pk but also would make it easier for a group of people to jump someone at temple etc.

[Helmut]

The root cause that we are trying to find a solution to, is the fact that people quit, log, quit, log to for bashing and waiting for certain items to respawn. They do this several hours of the day, which is REALLY annoying to some people, and it also was never intended for the game to be played this way. It's playing the code, rather than playing the game. We had someone the other day logging in and out every other min or so just waiting for gold to respawn. This has been fixed by removing the item, but other situations occur, like quiting and logging in for drac towers to respawn. Continously over and over and over and over and over again. Now that you see the problem. What are some suggestions to fixing the problem?

[Damerion]

Maybe mobs might need time to regen there exp values? for example if someone quits in a area and logs back a min later exp values will be down 35%-50% but if he recalls out and weights 2 ticks or so exp values will be back to normal? like once a mob repops his exp str wont' be teh same maybe?

[Helmut]

Interesting concept here. May require some more thought, but it's something. Keep the ideas coming.

[Acroth]

I'm definately going to be in the minority here...

But why should areas repop faster when there's nobody there?
It's always seemed unnatural to me.

Maybe there's limitations in the design of the codebase that make this
difficult, but why not just make the areas regenerate mobs at a
constant pace whether there's somebody there or not?

Obviously some areas would need some tweaking to make sure there
still enough viable bashing spots (and that repops didn't make them impossible
to complete), and eq runs would take more time, but why not?
I'm guessing that to make this work, we'd also need code changes to make
different areas repop after different numbers of ticks...

In terms of the bashing, I think a change like this would actually make the
game more interesting. People could no longer bash the same area 10 times
every hour, you'd be forced to actually roam around and find alternate areas to
bash while you waited for a zone to fully repop.

As far as the eq runs go... yeah it would suck if it took 15 minutes per newb
to get a hard piece of gear... but is that really such a bad thing? Maybe if
it wasn't possible to take a dozen people on an aura run in a couple hours
anymore, then everyone wouldn't have the best eq in the game by the time they're 100
years old...


Alternate solution (which I don't really recommend):
Rate limit logins to X per hour. So if somebody logs in/out say 5
times in a 10 minute period, it won't let them into the game: "sorry chief,
you've been logging in too much. take a break and come back at 7:18 [EOF]"

[Helmut]

Moved to get "MORE" input from players.

[Damerion]

Obviously no idea is a popular one in this regard, but I don't think that the respawn should be changed to a degree, I like the 15 min respawn (rough estimate) of time when someone is in area and 1-5 min spawn when people aren't in the area.

Personally if it was t his way people would be squeezed out to much, bigger people have 1-3 areas that they can bash for a decent amount of exp (anything below 2.5-4 mil a hour isn't worth it past 20k across) we have muddy, tzimisce, and crypts. (

Alaynia is pretty bad now due to elites and there reduced rate of exp makes it unbashable time wise, Camalot the mobs are to spread out and the plevels range so much you could be getting 20k from a mob or 0 depending, only stacks in 2-5 at most net result would be around 2-3 mil a hour which is barely moving not even 10 across. Lava is a good alternative I suppose.

Anyway heres my thought out suggestion, over 5 minutes mobs woudl totally respawn when left alone givng other areas time to shine in a way,

1 tick mark- 0 EXP Rewarded (possibility of item missing)
2 tick mark- 33% of exp is rewarded for the death of the mob (items will be on mobs)
3 tick mark- 50% of exp is rewarded
4 tick mark- 75% of exp is rewarded
5 tick mark and beyond 100%

Would give us time to do other things besides bash etc.

[nwalme]

How about instead of changing the repop times just make log in/out messages like a channel that we can turn off if its annoying and if its only 1 person and we don't want to mute all the log in/outs give us an option to mute just that player. I don't really see any good way to change repops and it only takes a couple seconds to get to the beginning of most bashing areas so they are not even gaining a big advantage by doing this if anything they are wasting time because if you go to the beginning of an area you can use scry to see when it has repoped and go back to bashing.

[Derubael]

How about instead of changing the repop times just make log in/out messages like a channel that we can turn off if its annoying and if its only 1 person and we don't want to mute all the log in/outs give us an option to mute just that player. I don't really see any good way to change repops and it only takes a couple seconds to get to the beginning of most bashing areas so they are not even gaining a big advantage by doing this if anything they are wasting time because if you go to the beginning of an area you can use scry to see when it has repoped and go back to bashing.

Agree with this solution 100%. Make log in/out messages a channel that can be switched off as a trmp fix and maybe work on just muting onr players messages for long term.

I think the main issue with changing anything with spawns is two-fold. Eq runs can be a ***** (can you imagine that 4 hr staff run suddenly taking 6 because you have a 15 min spawn timer?) and, more importantly, bashing. Especially at larger sizes, xping had alrdy slowed down big time, the days of 8-9mil an hour are gone, and realistically if you are making less than 4 mil an hour its simply not worth it. You dont want to frustrate the players by indirectly nerfing xping, its slow enough as it is (pretty sure if you break down the time investment required to go from 20k-25k on 4 mil an hour for 8 hours a day, youll see what i mean. Xping needs to stay where it is, imho)

[Omicron]

I Agree With Deru and Nwalme...create a channel that ppl can turn off for log ins/outs...

Thanks,
O

[Helmut]

The log in and out message is what brought it to light that there is a problem. As a player, i understand the need/want to get to 25k as fast a possible. As an admin, understand that I dont want you to get to 25k as fast as possible. Hitting 25k just means another board player that will most likely leave. So.. playing the code by logging in and out just to wait for a respawn shouldn't be happening. I wanted to make it so that mobiles would be completely invisable to a player for x amount of time. Though, this imposses some other issues. Doing nothing is just as irritating as doing something. You are always going to have people that are going to do anything and everything they can to gain a little advantage right or wrong. There's nothing wrong with that, but I trying to point out that this IS a problem.

[Alivia]

I understand the whole log in log out thing to be an issue. The messages get really annoying AND it causes lag ESPECIALLY if the player has alot of 'stuff'. Here is a thought though. What if there is a counter but with it comes a random global teleport. Say you log like 5 times in an hour the 5th time you log in you get randomly teleported. Now this could be to somewhere simple and you just have to walk back or you could be MAJORLY screwed depending on your level and where you get dropped. Yes this would limit the amount of people you could take on a run but not totally throw you out of going on runs that require a repop for an item. That was my thought and I can try to explain better if that is not clear.
Thanks for listening,

Alivia

[Damerion]

I was just giving a suggestion but for the record I agree with Nwalme and Deru, already worrying about getting to 25k quickly well... Im probably going to get 25k at some point in the next lets say 4 months if i go haphazourdly like i am now. The average age of maxing I think is like probably around 1100-1500, and probably me and Nwalme will hit max around the same time and same age (scary enough with nwalmes hours of bashing). We both will hit it around Makas age probably at a healthy 1100-1200 years which will put us well over probably 2500 hours logged.

Relogging probably doesn't help exp gain we tracked our bashing for a bit and we gained equal exp logging and then stayed logged and just recalled same exp its just laziness, don't think it would affect small people as much as big people. It would suck changing repop to be sure especially on runs, and I would refuse to do long runs for sure, I mass do staff runs and talon runs and anklets.

IDK I don't want to make bashing easy but i don't want to nerf it past what it is either, 4 hours for 40 across at getting max exp at most and probably likely 30 across....idk

[Derubael]

The log in and out message is what brought it to light that there is a problem. As a player, i understand the need/want to get to 25k as fast a possible. As an admin, understand that I dont want you to get to 25k as fast as possible. Hitting 25k just means another board player that will most likely leave. So.. playing the code by logging in and out just to wait for a respawn shouldn't be happening. I wanted to make it so that mobiles would be completely invisable to a player for x amount of time. Though, this imposses some other issues. Doing nothing is just as irritating as doing something. You are always going to have people that are going to do anything and everything they can to gain a little advantage right or wrong. There's nothing wrong with that, but I trying to point out that this IS a problem.

gettin to 25k right now, even with logging out for respawns, is by no means fast. It still takes a ton of work, a ton of time, and lots of dedication. Keep in mind that until recently (over the last year) we had many players max out doing simple xp runs that would net around 8 mil an hr, sometimes even a little more. I really hate saying this, because ive always been against those changes at heart, but it was a good thing that was taken out. But honestly the MOST youre going to see a player get nowadays is 5mil. Even just going from 20-25k at that rate takes months and months of playing everyday. I certainly dont disagree with you when it comes to maxing out requiring lots of time to do - the simple fact is that it already does take massive amounts of time.
And realistically I only know of one area where you really benifit from log in/out, and its a high level bash spot that not many people know about. Of those that do, only a very select few know how to do it right, and once again they arent gaining much more than 5 an hour. So really, by changing this, all youd effectively be doing is killing a bash spot for high lvl players, and making eq runs that require this mechanism take much, much longer (i guess thats depend on what you did to 'fix' it).

And btw, that bash spot was supposed to be a secret in the first place!

In any case, my whole point is dont fix something thats not broken. The log in/out mechanism for shortening spawn timers has been around for well over a decade. Just allow players to hide the messages - im pretty sure all the players see this the same way. Once again, I understand where admin are coming from on this, but im about 90% sure all this is going to do is upset players and throw a wrench into the mud that doesnt belong. No one is getting unbelievable amounts of xp from doing this, but it is good xp, and the people who bash that spot like it there. I dont think hitting 25k too early at 5 mil an hour is a problem. No one ever thought the 8 mil an hour drik/nest/mirrors run was too much xp until recently, after a bunch of players hit 22-25k range off it.

[Desades]

Basically nothing has changed letting ppl rush to 25k...so what's the point putting all those hours if age and size dont matter anymore?

[Faye]

Say you log like 5 times in an hour the 5th time you log in you get randomly teleported.
Alivia

What about the players with children? There are times when I log on 6-7 times an hour because I sit down and play and lil miss 3 yr decides she needs something. I wouldn't like to log back on and go visit Enkil or the likes for having to do something quick....... Just my thoughts tho.
Faye

[blart]

the only thing i see wrong with any of it except the channel part of the ideas is if we take x amount of people on say anklet run. 1 person gets the anklet and everyone else gets transported back to beginning of the are. that would suck for all but that 1 person who got the item. now putting a shorter repop timer on would display a problem on play time for the admin who want us to play more but it would help with item retrieval. Now the channel suggestion would be a good idea. I would think once you turn off the certain player logging in and out all the time you would miss them logging in at a later time and they could sneak up on you and kill you. but then again the LARGE PLAYERS would not have a problem there because they are already large and do not really need to defend themselves as much.

[Odius]

Say you log like 5 times in an hour the 5th time you log in you get randomly teleported.
Alivia

What about the players with children? There are times when I log on 6-7 times an hour because I sit down and play and lil miss 3 yr decides she needs something. I wouldn't like to log back on and go visit Enkil or the likes for having to do something quick....... Just my thoughts tho.
Faye

I second that...I have a 1 month old that requires a lot of attention..lol...not to mention fills his diapers up for me quite regularly..lol

[Sonja]

Lower the exp yields from mobs in rooms that have a lot of mobs that load in it, and people won't wait in that room for said mobs.

[Derubael]

Please for the love of god dont change xp from mobs. There is no fast track to 25k.

[Damerion]

Please for the love of god dont change xp from mobs. There is no fast track to 25k.

WELL there is one fast track, that is for someone to help you bash to 25k...i mean its not like its happened, and ya know hard work by yourself for thousands of hours, i mean its not like i'm goign to be one of the youngest to hit 25k and i'm nearing 1100 lol so not young at all, and Nwalme won't be old at 1k-1.1k...hrm

[Derubael]

I mean lets be honest, at 2400 hours played (roughly 1200 years old, about the youngest anyone would hit 25k nowadays with the way xp is (5 mil an hr is kinda the max), thats ONE HUNDRED DAYS of playing time. Actual days. Holy ****, how much harder are you trying to make it? Thats on the same level as becomming a jedi in the old mmorpg star wars galaxies (for those of you unfamiliar with that reference, google "time to becomr a jedi star wars galaxies).

Even Makaveli, who had constant access to the 8-9mil an hourr runs of old (like 8 months ago), didnt max out until around 900. Thats 1800 hours played, or 75 days. Actual, real 24 hour dys. I mean cmon. NO OnE can get that kind of xp anymore. Do we really need to make this even more time consuming?

[Helmut]

I mean lets be honest, at 2400 hours played (roughly 1200 years old, about the youngest anyone would hit 25k nowadays with the way xp is (5 mil an hr is kinda the max), thats ONE HUNDRED DAYS of playing time. Actual days. Holy ****, how much harder are you trying to make it? Thats on the same level as becomming a jedi in the old mmorpg star wars galaxies (for those of you unfamiliar with that reference, google "time to becomr a jedi star wars galaxies).

Even Makaveli, who had constant access to the 8-9mil an hourr runs of old (like 8 months ago), didnt max out until around 900. Thats 1800 hours played, or 75 days. Actual, real 24 hour dys. I mean cmon. NO OnE can get that kind of xp anymore. Do we really need to make this even more time consuming?

Ya! Look where Makaveli is now??!? When was the last time he actually played?
Makaveli: Lasttime = Tue Jan 3 01:43:46 2012

[kurtap]

what if we lifted the size cap?

[Helmut]

what if we lifted the size cap?

It's not as simple as you think. Lots of work has to be done before that can happen, and we are currently changing a lot of the code to better situate ourselves in that possibility.

[kurtap]

groovy

[Sonja]

I think some sort of remort system makes the most sense, personally. Let's do something different.

Having said that, maybe even make it easier to become 25k.

[Damerion]

i'm with kurtap i jsut want to go past 25k...idk why i hate myself tha tmuch but i like my toon and don't want to remort lol

[Derubael]

I mean lets be honest, at 2400 hours played (roughly 1200 years old, about the youngest anyone would hit 25k nowadays with the way xp is (5 mil an hr is kinda the max), thats ONE HUNDRED DAYS of playing time. Actual days. Holy ****, how much harder are you trying to make it? Thats on the same level as becomming a jedi in the old mmorpg star wars galaxies (for those of you unfamiliar with that reference, google "time to becomr a jedi star wars galaxies).

Even Makaveli, who had constant access to the 8-9mil an hourr runs of old (like 8 months ago), didnt max out until around 900. Thats 1800 hours played, or 75 days. Actual, real 24 hour dys. I mean cmon. NO OnE can get that kind of xp anymore. Do we really need to make this even more time consuming?

Ya! Look where Makaveli is now??!? When was the last time he actually played?
Makaveli: Lasttime = Tue Jan 3 01:43:46 2012

**edit** and still took 75 days to do it! Real 24 hour days!

my point was that he had the ability to do it twice as fast as anyone today =P

[Helmut]

my point was that he had the ability to do it twice as fast as anyone today =P

Because code is actually working the way it was suppose to be? Sorry for fixing things...

[Omicron]

what if we lifted the size cap?

i think this is the most realistic answer that is fair to both players and admin...

Problem = boredom and no more bashing

solution = lift cap

problem = admin worried about reaching 25k too fast

solution = lift cap

it answers both problems so why not...its really the next logical step for vampire wars as a whole...

O

[Helmut]

what if we lifted the size cap?

i think this is the most realistic answer that is fair to both players and admin...

Problem = boredom and no more bashing

solution = lift cap

problem = admin worried about reaching 25k too fast

solution = lift cap

it answers both problems so why not...its really the next logical step for vampire wars as a whole...

O

what if we lifted the size cap?

It's not as simple as you think. Lots of work has to be done before that can happen, and we are currently changing a lot of the code to better situate ourselves in that possibility.

HRM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LETS JUST REPEAT OURSELVES SOME MORE, WHY DONT WE????

[Damerion]

my point was that he had the ability to do it twice as fast as anyone today =P

Because code is actually working the way it was suppose to be? Sorry for fixing things...

Well I think Deru is glad that the exp actually works right now, I know I am, looking at numbers if I max when I think I will around 1200 will mean I played for 105.4 days of 24 hour days a 30 day increase from maka, maka was able to do like 100 a day at my size we are LUCKY to do 40-50, maybe if we played for 12 hours we could do 100 maybe.

Just sayin gi'm glad exp works right, I would say most people average Maybe 3 mil a hour at our size, the most efficient get near 5 but thats just a few I can't do it anymore. But thats just my idea

AND LETS REPEAT OURSELVES A BILLION TIMES MWHAHA

[Sonja]

Erm.. this is becoming an entirely different conversation that requires a separate thread.

Long story short:
Admins don't wait people bashing these rooms - then remove the high exp from these specific mobs and people will not bash them. Simple.

[Helmut]

I got what i'm looking for. Locking thread so it disappears.